CMA: Still Searching for answers
Oct. 9th, 2005 06:09 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
nyykiI'm still trying to get on the CMA list that has eluded me for months now. Starting to frustrate me this is. Told to contact Bruce in communications I was, but correct email address given I was not.
Also, questions about the sale of the land proposal I have, and needing to talk to someone who knows I do. (Charlie, chat we could?) Before decisions I make, answers I need so informed I will be.
Also, questions about the sale of the land proposal I have, and needing to talk to someone who knows I do. (Charlie, chat we could?) Before decisions I make, answers I need so informed I will be.
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no subject
Date: 2005-10-09 11:47 pm (UTC)My 2 cents, why the hell we would sell land and then spend money on said land that wasn't ours any more to improve it. Better books need to be kept they do, and stop spending so much money on concerts and paying to get all the bands here specially from out of the country!!!. Get the Accord back up and running putting it into shops to get new members. The full story will never be told! I my self, am not renewing till shit is settled for good and every one starts to act like the grown ups they are supposed to be.
Personaly I would like to know which staff member is part of this "group" that wants to buy the land, then they need to step down from staff and have NOTHING to do with this so called "sale" ,if it happens, what so ever!!! Too many rumors are flying and no one is stepping up to the plate to say if its true or not...
Well now
Date: 2005-10-10 01:33 am (UTC)First and MOST IMPORTANT: there is NO pending sale and no pending discussions with them other than a cursory "we have this idea to take care of the land's remaining note, are you interested in discussions?" discussion. That has to be voted on at Samhain at the meeting. We have to have the permission of the membership to even open negotiations with them.
I'm not real sure all the details yet but I DO know that the people who brought this up are long-time CMA members.
Re: Well now
Date: 2005-10-10 01:44 am (UTC)I know the basic scheme of the way things have to go. My question has nothing to do with procedure.
How do you feel about this? You were on the group that picked this land in the first place, so I want your personal opinion of this move.
Is CMA in bad enough straits that this is a do or die situation? I'm not going to get into my other questions about the buyer and CMA's financial situation until I get your take on this.
As someone who was involved in the actual buying of the property, I'm really curious as to how you personally feel about it.
If you like, you can IM me if you don't want your views broadcast publically at this point.
Well now...
Date: 2005-10-10 01:49 am (UTC)The books are being kept, you can check with Gary Park about them. He knows exactly what is being spent where and why. And members are allowed to get the information.
We also only have one musical guest this time and I don't think she's getting much in the way of pay, if any, due to our finances. I know she's being comped into the festival and given a food ticket but that is a normal deal, one we did even before I was on the board.
Accord is dead, except online. The cost of putting out a magazine like you are asking for is WAY more than CMA or many other groups could handle. Note how many of the "good" magazines have gone under and that will tell you. I can point to how much it costs and tell you that we were in the red for many years on the magazine and that helped pull us under, even when Marilyn was doing it.
As for getting new members, what will bring people back and bring them in is getting all the egos out of the way and getting the festival into a "fun" place where the spirituality, the workshops/rituals/and other things are the center and not the "bullshit". Looking at how other successful events are getting members, they do it by word of mouth combined with online sites and a good line up of activities. That has to be paramount over this whole "suspicion of everyone, everything" anal probe that has happened every six months since 2000.
I have 100% belief in that the land needs this partnership "sale" (and it's a partnership agreement more than a "sale" type thing, as I understand it). I don't know if you have ANY idea how much that land means to me, that I was on the board that walked the dream and then signed the paperwork for it and I would not EVER go into a situation that I thought would take this land away from membership. The way it is going, with our economics (which isn't totally the fault of anyone in particular, look at the economics of everywhere, the downturn in the economy due to Bush, the hurricanes, and the unemployment rate), it is more likely that we would lose the land to the bank in a very short amount of years than if we entered into this partnership deal.
Instead of thinking and listening to rumors, come to the Samhain meeting and hear what is said. Get into the debate and learn what is going on. Rumors are always so bad. Take it back to the source. Ask the board at the meeting. They will be talking about it there.
Re: Well now...
Date: 2005-10-10 02:01 am (UTC)According to several posts Marilyn made in her journal on the subject, the Accord made money during her tenure. She has been adamant about this.
Second, let's not blame the economy on Bush. Anyone who knows anything about economics knows that it takes a lot longer for things to turn to hell in our multi-faceted economy than just the president. I blame it far more on Worldcom, Enron, and Nortel than I do on the president. Besides, he's screwed up enough stuff we can easily point to without blaming him for stuff he didn't do.
I got some answers for you
Date: 2005-10-10 02:29 am (UTC)As for the land. As much as I know about it, I am all for it. I would not willingly do it without a VERY good reason. We are fortunate that this has come up because that $60,000 balloon payment is coming up really soon and we really don't want to continue this worry about money. Right now we're making the payment and trying to do upkeep at the same time.
When we bought the land, we had NO idea how much it was going to cost to maintain it, much less build on it. And we didn't count on the cost of fuel or other things. The loss of some of the equipment due to the "mess" hurt, the pumps on the water going out (some plumbing problems due to salinity, minerals, and sulfer in the water that we did not know when we bought and punched the well), and the resultant fall-out of the split cost us.
Someone came along and asked if we were interested in going, essentially, into partnership on the land with the idea that they would pay off the note for us and be able to use the front portion for a theology school while we retained the back part and the ability to hold events and rent out space for other events, etc. This cannot even be discussed any further until the membership is told about it and they vote for the board to open up discussions. The board will not do anything without taking it back to the membership. This is not going to be a "quick" situation, in any case. I foresee it taking at least the next six months or more.
So, now we're going to be hearing the beginnings about how to handle things. Just as many builders buy a piece of property to build a subdivision on, subdivide it and sell off part of it to pay off the rest of us, this would be about like that, BUT with one major difference, we would be entering into a partnership with the people who owned the front piece (fence to creek only), and that would mean we would need to get a couple of people involved in their organization to watch our needs and requirements. We would still retain use of the part from the creek to the end of the property and be able to do what we needed to for it.
I think it would be very good for us AND for the people we would be going into partnership with. It is a win/win situation for both groups, will foster a better working of community, allow our members to be involved in a pagan theology school and get their students a chance to become a member of our CMA community.
I love that land, I worked my ass off to help get the money to get it, have worked since to raise money for it, and the only reason I'm not on land crew is because I have been ill and cannot do it. That is "HOME" for me, literally, and I look forward to going out every time I get a chance to. I am looking forward to many long, long years on that land and even having the renewal of my wedding vows out there eventually, as well as having my grandkids out there. We've even talked putting my ashes out there when I finally pass the veil.
I would not vote for anything that would jeopardize this land and I am confident that what has been brought forward so far sounds like what needs to happen. I'm going to listen to what they say and if it sounds different that what I have been told so far, I will make a different decision.
But what I know so far, I am wanting this for CMA, it will free up our money to be able to go toward furthering the organization's wishes in many areas.
Hope this helps.
Accord was making it, at that time
Date: 2005-10-10 02:37 am (UTC)And, the amount of ads dropped considerably. Combine that with the drop in membership after the split and it was not going to be cost effective at all. That's why the last few issues were so small. We didn't have the operational capital any longer to put it out like that. I know, I did the last two budgets and we were in the red for at least the time after Marilyn's last issue to when we packed it in. Sorry, that's what happened. And I can name you many others that went through that same thing. Green Egg had problems and folded, Magickal Life folded way before we did. Circle is wholly owned by Circle Sanctuary and is supported by ads. Sage Woman is established and so is Pan Gaia, and New Witch, which are all owned by Arena Press. I don't know their operational budget but I bet they are just over into the black, if they are.
I agree, the economy was tanking before Bush (of course, I got laid off in Clinton's admin, as did Bruce and we both got hit with bad economy down here due to Enron). But he's not helped it come back any faster.
Re: I got some answers for you
Date: 2005-10-10 03:05 am (UTC)How much was the actual buying price for the land? A baloon payment makes things more of a pain, I agree.
As long as the buyer is fiscally responsible and won't wind up losing the property due to some mortgage failure, then I don't see a problem with it. We have a good amount of land there anyway.
I do hope this would signal a reduction in festival prices. I'm hearing a lot of "We can't affor Samhain this time" from people, so something has to give or the turnout will be rather small. Of course, if there is no mortgage to pay, then the pressures become ones of maintaining the land and building infrastructure.
Unlike you, I have no great love for the land. It's a place. I have no affinity with it, (might be due to the inordinate amount of time it takes to get there from the part of the state I'm in) and I don't have a real deep connection with the organization either. If they keep hosting festivals that are worth the money and the drive time, I'll keep going. If the quality falls off or the festivals go away, I'll find somewhere else to go. I've seen too many organizations go away to get emotionally attached to one, especially with all the politics that tend to crop up in them. After all, I used to play in Steppes, I've had enough politics to last me a lifetime.
I hope I'll have a chance to vote outside of the great works meeting. I swore that I'd never go to another one of those ever again.
Ok
Date: 2005-10-10 03:25 am (UTC)Actual price when we bought it in 2000, $110,000.
I would hope it would be a reduction in price as well, but we need to finish some projects and there will always be the money needed for upkeep and improvements. That part will never go away.
And, from what I understand, the people who are going to do this are going to pay it outright, no mortagage involved at all. Totally free and clear. They will have the paper on it wholly owned.
BTW
Date: 2005-10-11 12:08 am (UTC):)